And all that was before SPOILER ALERT the massive time jump forward.
But their positions have changed.
Ragnar slumped home to Kattegat, defeated.
Credit: Bernard Walsh/History
Rollo returned to Paris, triumphant.
Ragnar promises Rollo that one of them will die.
Does he want to kill Rollo?
Or does he want to die?
MICHAEL HIRST:you could read that in different ways.
We know that Ragnar didnt want power, he didnt choose power.
Hes not going to Paris to raid.
Hes not interested in trinkets.
He feels deeply that his brother has betrayed him, like a lot of people have betrayed him.
Hes a very sensitive guy, and you feel the struggle he has had to stay in power.
The drug-taking was a way of masking these psychological problems.
Hes deliberately, it seems to me, focused on the personal.
It was always going to be between [Ragnar and Rollo].
Thats my feeling, that that would have been a good ending for him.
You know, thats my favorite scene of the whole show?
I can understand why!
How did you conceive of that scene?
He was in love with his young wife, and they had a baby there.
At the end ofA Moveable Feast, his book was published he was going to be famous.
Hed lived in Paris in poverty until that.
But hed been so happy!
When he became the famous, rich, iconic Ernest Hemingway.
Hes always talked about the simple things in life.
He didnt want to stoop down to pick up power.
This season, a lot of his energy has seeped out.
How did you come up with that direction for this season?
It was the rise and fall of the hero.
When he took them over the cliffs, that was Ragnar.
But it is a decline.
That puts challenges on the actor.
Ragnars story is not told.
This is, and always has been, the story of Ragnar and his sons.
We can look forward to following them.
But Ragnars story isnt over by any means.
Did you always anticipate the big time jump happening here in the middle of season 4?
I always anticipated the time jump.
I wanted to change it up when Ragnar is at his lowest, you know?
Thats the end of a big part of Ragnars story.
People have asked me, like, What is the time jump, exactly?
I dont know, exactly!
It was just enough time for the boys to grow up.
Whether its six years or seven years or eight years didnt worry me particularly.
It did have, of course, ramifications in terms of: Whats happened to the other characters?
Do they look older?
Its a huge town.
Hes a stranger in this place, now.
The sons have seen all this change, lived through that.
Were told Ragnar has been wandering for a long time.
Will we learn about those years between, and what hes been up to?
Ragnars come back for a purpose.
He has to fulfill that purpose, and he does fulfill that purpose.
Thats a big part of the narrative.
The sons, its slightly different.
They have to consistently deal with the fallout of Ragnar leaving.
When Ragnar left, there was a power vacuum.
Who could fill that?
In the medium term, Aslaug has stepped in, made herself the Queen.
But these issues of power who rules in Kattegat, what is the legacy these are real issues.
Some of the sons are prepared to accept what happened to Ragnar.
There are other sons who are implacably pissed off with him, that hes betrayed them.
I have a very close friend, Nic Roeg, the director, who had triple heart bypass surgery.
I went to see him.
He really, in a sense, ought to have died during the surgery.
I started to talk about it, and he said, I dont want to talk about it.
Theres nothing to say.
Im just in a state of being.
Thats what Ragnar is.
What could he say?
Oh, I went here, or there.
What would that mean?
I am still alive.
I am in a state of being.
You have to deal with it.
Thats what that wonderful end, when hes confronting everyone: You have to deal with me.
Travis is so charismatic.
He wanted the backstory; he wanted to know.
But for him, as a character, its forward.
But Ive still got this vision.
Ive got this thing to do.
He has to go back to England.
He has to confront Ecbert again about the destruction of the settlement.
He has to make a full circle of his life.
I love Nicolas Roeg films.
Im glad to hear the surgery was successful!
I was just recently watchingThe Man Who Fell To Earth.
If you notice, there are many homages to Nic in the show.
The first real lovemaking between Rollo and Gisla, that is set up like the lovemaking inDont Look Now.
There are a lot of references in the show.
A lot of references to [Andrei] Tarkovsky, because I love Tarkovsky.
What is your favorite Tarkovsky film?
Theres quite a lot of quotes from that.
We leave Rollo at such an emotional climax.
Is this the end of his journey on the show?
No, I couldnt bear it to be the end.
Rollos coming back, and Im sure the fans will be delighted to know that.
Are we going to see more of her in the next half of the season?
Lagerthas a very important character, as [Katheryn Winnick, who plays Lagertha] keeps reminding me.
Shes been on an incredible journey, from the beginning, really.
Usually, her success is compromised by men.
However strong she becomes, somehow men succeed in taking things away from her.
But shes a huge part of the story going forward.
She is always on my mind.
Shes become the kind of soul of the show.
She doesnt just challenge the other male characters on the show.
It was interesting to see the actors playing Ragnars sons after the time jump.
The actor playing Ivar, Alex Hogh Andersen, really stuck out to me.
Is it crazy if I think he looksa little bit like Jonathan Rhys Meyers?
He is a great find.
Hes a tremendous actor.
There are some great scenes between him and Travis in [the second half of the season].
He really is someone whos going to take the show forward.
[At this point, Hirst talks a bit about Jonathan Rhys Meyers role in season 5.
He isNOT playing an older version of Ivar, is all we can tell you.]
So much time has passed on this show, in a way that I think is unusual for television.
Weve talked in the past about your vision for the show.
That was never going to be the end of the show.
We are going to power through.
Mind you, Athelstan is dead, but he hasnt quite disappeared.
My characters hang around a bit.
