I was shocked because I was really terrified, Weiner says.
And Jenji was happy, which, I hate to say, was all I really care about.
ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: First off, thanks for breaking my heart and the hearts ofOrangefans everywhere.
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I read it, and I was like, Wow.
Thats a big episode.
Thats definitely an understatement.
So walk me through a little bit of how this came together.
I know youve been friends with Jenji for a long time.
Did she approach you?
So she said to me, I have an episode coming up.
Do you want to do it?
Ive never done it before.
It was very challenging, not just the script itself, but Im a huge fan of the show.
This is the first time youve directed something you didnt write.
How did you find that experience?
Well, first of all, I got a great script.
And it was really different.
Before I showed up, I watched the entire series again.
I cant go in there.
I got shot in there!
or whatever it is.
I didnt want to be that guy!
And I was also very comfortable working with their system.
You know what surprised me?
I did not expect that.
They dont behave that way.
And people are rooting for each other!
Theyre competitive with each other in the scenes, and not in life, which is what you want.
I was really surprised that no one was like, Hey, Im on a big show.
You know, Uzo [Aduba] has won two Emmys.
Theyre just a very warm group.
And it had a very real ensemble feeling.
Its an underdog atmosphere, which to me, thats the bohemian dream of being in show business.
So lets talk about that final scene where the entire cast is in the cafeteria, protesting.
There are so many different layers to this episode.
On one hand, its an extremely emotional, personal story, but theres also the political ramifications.
Were you thinking about what this episode means in more of a political context?
Hes shocked that hes let out of jail.
And Bayley wonders if hes got the stomach for this job.
Of course, in addition, its racist.
But what its also about is order based on might, and theres no law.
And theres so much hope in the episode.
Theres so much talk about the future.
Theres Piper and Alex.
Thats a scene of forgiveness.
And then you have Boo and Pennsatucky and that incredible scene, which completely surprised me.
That was so emotional.
And then you have Burset coming back and trying to become a human being again.
And all of that, you did not want it to tip, but it was going to happen.
This place is a powder keg, and these are not people to these guards.
And the good people like Caputo dont have any control over it.
I always think back to the real origins of the fact that Bayley should not be a guard.
He has no training.
That was what we kept talking about, like, You are terrified.
You are completely unqualified, and thats why you are sitting on the smallest person in this room.
Thats the writing, and to me, thats what a climax is.
Heres all the threads: Now theyre going to end up in a knot.
What was the vibe like on set that day?
I imagine it would be very emotional.
Theyre losing one of their coworkers!
And this is Samiras last show.
Nobody knew what was going to happen in [episode] 13, by the way.
I mean, Samira did, but I didnt.
I knew that wasnt her last day on set, but I didnt know what the story was.
This is where your fandom versus your professionalism get in the way of each other.
Dont spoil it for me!
So with that final scene, what were some of the things discussed with Samira?
How did you approach this with her?
Lesson number one, youre a visiting director.
Youre not going to tell anybody how to play a character or what anything means.
And they know it better than you!
And actors know what theyre doing, but they dont always know what youre seeing.
Which sounds like a no-brainer, but its extraordinary circumstances.
No matter how great an actor is, they know the result, and it could happen.
And she was great about that.
And then her going to protect Crazy Eyes, its sisterly.
The rest of it?
[Laughs] She nailed it.
The hardest part, honestly, was that moment where Taystees being dragged out and sees her.
It was in the script, and it was very important to me to get that just right.
They could really see each other, which helped.
I was like, how do we tell the audience that something is really happening?
Well, Taystees going to tell us.
And then the rest of it was the silence afterwards.
It doesnt feel mechanical when youre shooting it, I can tell you that.
The episode ends with this shot from the ceiling, where you spiral out and see the entire aftermath.
Was that your decision?
How did that come together?
And you dont want it to look like you left the building, which is weird.
Lets let everybody feel this.
It was the last thing we shot.
Which made it even more painful.
